Curse

Dusk_ · Aug 15, 2009, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey Hawthorne

snares and kd's gotcha. and no more tank n' spank.

I'd actually recommend not using any snares or knockdown at first, just to practise. Snares are largely crutches, and though they can be extremely effective, the less you need them the better a player you'll be. Knockdown isn't really a good way of keeping enemies close to you, and should be seen as a way to keep enemies from doing anything.

The biggest key to holding aggro is being the first target. You want the enemies to see you first, and attack you first. Once you get that initial aggro, your biggest goal is to stop the melee from going to the backlines, which is done through positioning with the terrain and body-blocking. The harder it is for monsters to get around you, the less likely they are to try.

As subarucar mentioned, though, tanking isn't really necessary in this game, if you have good support. At the same time, you have the highest armour in the game, so any damage you take is going to be less than the damage anyone else takes.

A good warrior will be dealing a lot of damage. A very good warrior will be dealing a lot of damage, and taking the majority of the hits.

Lux Aeterna · Aug 15, 2009, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Warriors do damage in Guild Wars, they're offense players

Guild Wars has monster AI set up so that monsters attack the weakest players first, meaning they will simply ignore a tank and go for anything with lower armor and hitpoints -- monsters choose targets like players in pvp, and kill the casters first. This means that holding aggro is simply impossible, and unless you're lucky fights will quickly get very messy with lots of melee enemies simply rushing straight past the tank and stomping your healer.

(My monk hero runs Disciples insignia, and a defset including a q9 shield so she doesn't ever get spiked, she has like more passive defense than me)

Even with a perma sin tank, who has less armor and health than most party members, holding aggro is difficult and you're likely to end up with a crowd of Bladed Aatxes all up in your eles.

Minion masters are the only effective tanks, really, simply because minions have lower health and armor than players, the monsters target them and they end up absorbing large amounts of damage -- I rarely go anywhere difficult without an MM.

Your defense and midline should be soaking up damage with minions, protection spells, and active defense like aoe blind/ reckless haste etc.

Parties are arranged like this:

Frontline (damage)
- Warriors
- Rangers
- Sins and Dervs
Offensive Midline (more damage)
- Elementalists
- Paragons running spear mastery builds
- Curses necros
Defensive Midline
- Minion masters
- Blinding eles
- Paragons running support builds (imbagons, TPIY, empathic)
Defense/ backline
- Monks
- Healing rits
- any other heal classes

Yes, GW is quite a bit more structured and takes a bit more skill / thought than most other games. No, tanking doesn't work well, you'd do best to simply forget about it.

Pulling is very useful, proper pulling and group aggro control (not aggroing more than one group, basically) will save you lots of party wipes. Warriors are typically the ones to pull, use the aggro bubble on your compass don't bother with a longbow or anything like that just use the bubble. Don't aggro anything your group can't take on immediately.

Typically it's best to kill a mob the second you aggro them -- if your group tries to break aggro and keep travelling you end up getting in big trouble, especially in the more difficult areas.

Basically, run this or you fail:
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:W/P_..._Slash_Warrior
Brawling headbutt for the open slot.

draxynnic · Aug 15, 2009, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

Minion masters are the only effective tanks, really, simply because minions have lower health and armor than players, the monsters target them and they end up absorbing large amounts of damage -- I rarely go anywhere difficult without an MM.

Possibly just as important, the MM also means you have somewhere on the order of ten extra bodies to bodyblock, which is more likely to form an effective wall than even an expert Warrior.

If you really want to draw aggro, I'm led to understand that the way to do so is to make sure that none of your allies are within your danger bubble when you aggro - allies outside the aggro bubble aren't considered by the AI's target priority algorithms. Once they've selected targets, they won't switch unless something caused them to reconsider (I think being knocked down, scattered by AOE or their target moving out of attack range can all cause them to reconsider, but a target running away because they're about to die will usually find themselves still being the favoured target after the target selection algorithm is rechecked). However, like everyone else in the thread, I find it generally more efficient to prot the target(s), disrupt and weaken the enemy's attacks, and then just plain kill'em.

Grey Hawthorne · Aug 15, 2009, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

It's important to distinguish the difference between holding aggro and tanking.

*Tanking is where you stand around and be useless while stuff hits you. Holding Aggro is where you make a bit of an effort to pull and attract attention.
*Tanks fill their bar with block stances and +health skills. Non-tank Wars run damage bars, as normal.
*Tanks help prevent damage. Non-tank Wars help prevent a ton of damage ("Save Yourselves", Earth Shaker, KD's), while dealing a ton themselves.

There really isn't a reason you should be tanking. Any half decent Monk will put [[Shield of Absorption] and [[Protective Spirit] on you, essentially making you unkillable by either spike or pressure (i.e, practically unkillable), and as such there is no need to waste skills or attributes on tanking crap.

thanks marty. that's more of what I was looking for. Subarucar, you were absolutely right it's gonna take some getting used but I think I'm gettin' the idea of how to do this. Gift3d...your WoW comment made me laugh. A lot.

wilebill · Aug 15, 2009, 01:19 PM // 13:19

1. Pulling: Get a longbow, no attribute required means you do not have to be a W/R. A starting area bow that requires no marksmanship is ok, but any longbow will do, really. Use this to pull where there is danger of getting two groups aggroed. Stick it in weapons slot 4.

Sometimes, when out with hench and/or heroes you may encounter mobs that will slow you way down with water magic. Shoot with bow from range until mobs come into attack your softies. Then get 'em.

Or if you are attacking groups with nasty casters with armor ignoring damage, begin combat with a bow and let the hench warrior go in and make them use their initial mana. (ooo! I'll bet that hurt!) Then go in and smash them. Note that firing with a bow will build your adrenaline!

2. When possible, attack along the side of a wall. More chance of clumping the mob up. Use boulders and such the same way.

3. Watch your backfield. When a warrior or two goes after your monk(s), get after them and take the pressure off.

4. Note that double clicking on a party members name in the party window will make your character run to that party member. So, when you see a softy's hp beginning to take a beating, you can run to them quickly.

5. The target you run in to attack will often retreat, leaving the rest of the mob to go after your party. Watch for that, and switch target to the targets trying to get past you.

I also play some WoW. Different here than there, but once you get used to it, GW is much faster paced and a real hoot besides!

Aeon221 · Aug 15, 2009, 02:53 PM // 14:53

The best part of being a warrior is definitely earth shaker. Nothing is better than walking up and sitting down an entire group of mobs. Bonus points if you sit them down and then the casters drop roj on them.

draxynnic · Aug 15, 2009, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon221

The best part of being a warrior is definitely earth shaker. Nothing is better than walking up and sitting down an entire group of mobs. Bonus points if you sit them down and then the casters drop roj on them.

Even better would be sitting them down just as the ion cannon appears...

Jaigoda · Aug 18, 2009, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Aggro on GuildWiki has a lot of useful info, and even a few things I learned. Also, Wiki will become your best friend for finding out information about GW.

But like other people have said, it's usually not worthwhile to try and tank, and you're better off doing one of the following: Snare or KD everything so they can't get to the squishy casters, or spam Save Yourselves on everyone so that your monks have a much easier job (just a note, +100 armor is about 80% damage reduction). You should try and keep hold of as much aggro as you can, but your job shouldn't be dedicated to tanking.